tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1790030420507335953.post6796114436629681049..comments2024-03-23T08:21:07.075-07:00Comments on Points of Light: Desperate & Delusional?David Guyllhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16299128722345607123noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1790030420507335953.post-51113147418125707212010-09-19T06:54:11.331-07:002010-09-19T06:54:11.331-07:00I agree with much of your feeling about 4E, but sh...I agree with much of your feeling about 4E, but should mention that, by sales/profit, D&D's best years were: 1982 & 2001. WOTC got D&D because of bad management and lawsuits that led to TSR's demise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1790030420507335953.post-449392025768626922010-09-16T08:15:42.864-07:002010-09-16T08:15:42.864-07:00Well said. I'm really excited about Essential...Well said. I'm really excited about Essentials, because while I'm a huge fan of the 4e combat system, I've always felt that it lacked some of the classic "D&D feel" that has marked the earlier editions (notably 2nd ed.) It sounds like the Essentials rules allow you to bring back that nostalgic feel while still using the absolutely excellent 4e combat rules.<br /><br />That said, I think there's a lot to be learned from the "old school renaissance" OD&D is a fun game in it's own right.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02001763786534985344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1790030420507335953.post-83421544568967078382010-09-16T00:57:14.784-07:002010-09-16T00:57:14.784-07:00As a disclaimer, I'm a 4E lover, and I'm c...As a disclaimer, I'm a 4E lover, and I'm completely thrilled by Essentials. Personally, I don't think it will bring the end of the world, but I've seen quite a bunch of people who think otherwise. That said...<br /><br />It is possible that Essentials is stretched out too far. It is attempting to appeal to a lot of different groups: current 4E fans, kids completely new to the hobby, and players of older editions who didn't like 4E for whatever reason. And somewhere in between, there are contradictory requirements.<br /><br />The new kid asks for simpler gameplay. Sure, 4E may be the most streamlined edition ever, and many of us have introduced newbies with ease, but... there is still room for improvement. <br /><br />Some new players don't have someone to teach them, and even some current 4E veterans occassionally get overwhelmed with the range of options, both in play and in character creation. So Essentials provides the added simplicity that those players need... and some 4E fans feel alienated.<br /><br />The lapsed veterans (and I mean people who found 4E unappealing back in the day, not the active haters that can still be found in most forums) may dislike 4E for different reasons, but they all share something in common: they liked previous editions of D&D. So anything that evokes classic concepts makes the game more likely to attract these players.<br /><br />There is a lot of space to 'go classic', mostly because 4E was such a big departure from the past, to begin with. Of course, the trick is to manage that while keeping the current core more or less intact. Merely flavorful changes, like using ancient names such as Thief and Backstab or old school concepts like schools of magic help in that regard, and are mostly harmless, but can fall a bit short.<br /><br />Some old schoolers had genuine mechanical concerns, and you can't wave that away with a change of names. The 'samey class' issue is the big one - differentiating classes by style and function while keeping the exact same framework works for many people (myself included), but it lost some veterans along the way. If that framework can be tweaked so that resource management feels different without changed all that much, you can get that people back in the game. As long as you don't break the game in half, that is.<br /><br />And then you have the loyal 4E fan, who sees all those changes not targeted at him, and wonders what will be left of HIS game afterwards. Frankly, I think the answer is 'pretty much the same, with a couple more options, and maybe more people to play with'.<br /><br />People are worried that the new class styles will kill the balance, because different resource systems can get messy. Me, I think it may be a problem for campaigns with very long or very short adventuring days, but it looks like it could just work. <br /><br />Others are annoyed that a new book they don't care for brings errata to their PCs (i.e. Melee Training). Yet this has happened before: Daggermasters got nerfed because of Sorcerers, and Pit Fighters because of Avengers, and nobody is blaming PHB2. Small conflicts with older material are all but inevitable, particularly when you're trying out brand new ideas.<br /><br />Finally, there is that vague statement about 'future classes following the Essentials model', which could mean almost anything, and many just read as 'Don't expect anything but Slayers and Thiefs in the future!'. I always thought the developers were talking about trying out different resource systems and giving out features as you level (i.e. more Mages, or more Psions) but, as I said, they've been pretty vague.<br /><br />I'm fairly confident in the success of the line, as there is some very clever design in there. Unfortunately, the Edition War will probably just go on forever.Pericohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12414348870266960204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1790030420507335953.post-50904619029029678642010-09-15T19:47:53.771-07:002010-09-15T19:47:53.771-07:00The vitriol of the "edition wars" is dis...The vitriol of the "edition wars" is distasteful no matter where your allegiance lies. <br /><br />1. I agree that 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons is just as much "D&D" as any previous edition. "Grognards" who protest otherwise are just grumpy old men and women.<br /><br />2. No edition of D&D prior to 4e REQUIRED the use of miniatures. I never owned or used miniatures for playing D&D until 4e. Sure, some people claim to play without miniatures, but I can't imagine doing so, given the direction of the 4e combat rules.<br /><br />3. I hope "the majority" of D&D 4e players you speak of DO want what previous editions had to offer, or else why the heck even play?<br /><br />D&D 4e is the continuation of a long tradition of fantasy role playing games which will hopefully continue well beyond any future editions of the rules.Chiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16846510905748241906noreply@blogger.com